Jacob Carlson - Episode 2

Show Transcript/Notes

Podcast Episode 2- Jacob Carlson - Show notes

Jacob Carlson: The top of the waterfall was September 16 and I remember like really obsessing about being the number one rap of what you know 4050 people, whatever. 

I had to  pull together a great month end of the quarter Q3, and I was at the top of the waterfall.

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Jacob Carlson:  It was August, so that it was September. It was like Labor Day weekend and I remember like not having like a panic attack but  You know, like going out like trying to hang out my friends like feeling like I had something to celebrate and like it just like not feeling like

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Jacob Carlson: Anything that I had like kind of made it up to be right. So it kind of like actually like it was like going to the top of the mountain and then like hitting like a major drop like I was just like,

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Jacob Carlson: You know what I mean like I had obsessed on what I thought it was. And I actually called Ricco bearish. This is like when I this is like when me and Rick Roberto's like back and forth started because I was like Rick.  I've heard of you in the ecosystem, blah, blah, blah, blah, like we'd gone back and forth a little bit like I just hit the top of the waterfall. And I didn't think I didn't need special and I'm freaked out that like

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Jacob Carlson: I can't get back there, or that there isn't more for me to be able to accomplish and like I thought it was this would be like

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Jacob Carlson: Bigger than it was.

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Jordan Benjamin: I love that. That reminds me so much of one of the, like, really powerful conversations I had with Mosley early on when he was like number one for the year and then ended up

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Jordan Benjamin: Being like, well, what now like that. That was my goal. And now what do I do. So I think there's a lot there. And so as we get rolling, I guess.

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Jordan Benjamin: kicks me off on a whole different tangent that I'm going to hold on to. But talk to me a little bit about how you Oh shit, I got to introduce you. Sorry.

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Jordan Benjamin: All right, I'm gonna

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Jordan Benjamin: Yeah, I don't need to pause it, it's cool.

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Jacob Carlson: You can always like reverb all that like kind of check it back in and that's

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Jordan Benjamin: That's what I'm learning and some of my audio editing my very amateur skills of, like, all right, how do I cut this in put this here and there and like

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Jordan Benjamin: I haven't done much yet so we'll see if I

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Jacob Carlson: Try and do I got some people you

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Jacob Carlson: Could work with for super cheap like we saw a guy do it for 50 bucks an episode.

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Jordan Benjamin: I know that that's our

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Jordan Benjamin: That's our. I'm like, after I put like an hour into it. I'm probably just gonna be like, All right, let's find somebody else to do this shit but

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Jordan Benjamin: All right. Welcome to the peak performance selling podcast today. We've got our special guest Jacob Carlson cam for at HubSpot joining us. He's a perpetual presidents club.

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Jordan Benjamin: overachiever at HubSpot, as well as running multiple different businesses outside of HubSpot Jake has been in sales for many, many years and has a lot of really great insight that I'm excited for him to share with us today. Welcome, Jacob.

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Jacob Carlson: Hey Jordan. Thanks for having me. Many, many years to make me sound like I'm pretty old dude. Well,

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Jordan Benjamin: You know, I think you're just running so hard doing so many different things you just build a lot of knowledge and experience really quickly. I know, I know. I'm just so I'm teasing.

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Jacob Carlson: Thanks for having me.

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Jordan Benjamin: Absolutely. So Jacob, I'd be really curious to hear a little bit about your story and how you ended up getting into sales in the first place.

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Jacob Carlson: Sales. Interesting. So I graduated college in 2008

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Jacob Carlson: Which shows how old I am. I guess in that short instance. So like

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Jacob Carlson: Basically, there weren't a ton of opportunities right it was like during the recession, there were. I remember graduating people be like, oh, there's no chance you could get a job, you should go back to grad school like

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Jacob Carlson: You know, sit it out, do whatever I was working at a radio station. I think at the time. Um, and I saw a job posting for a recruiter

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Jacob Carlson: And it was a MBA program in Boston. So it was Holt international business school in Boston. And it was a recruiter

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Jacob Carlson: So I actually funny story. I like to play NC double A football. And one of the cool parts of the game is you can kind of like recruit these fake players throughout

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Jacob Carlson: You know, throughout the dynasty mode of the game and I just like thought that was so cool and like at that point in my life. I was like, more into like recruiting the five star recruit that was like made up. And I was like, actually playing the game.

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Jacob Carlson: So I applied for the job. I got the job, which was awesome. And I remember like the first couple of weeks of doing it.

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Jacob Carlson: My mother actually picked me up for dinner. It was like two, three weeks into it and she was like just psyched. I had a job like she didn't give a shit like what I was doing, necessarily.

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Jacob Carlson: She knew I had a job. I had to like dress up and I sat in front of a computer all day. So that was like good enough for her.

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Jacob Carlson: And I remember being like she was like, so like Jacob, like, what are you doing every day. Like what's the day to day like

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Jacob Carlson: And it's like, well, Mom. They send me 100, you know, phone numbers to call and profiles and I call them and I tell them about the school and I try to book a meeting for one of our like, you know, senior recruiters to talk to

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Jacob Carlson: And she was like, Huh. Sounds like you're in sales. And I was like, No, I'm like, I'm a recruiter my, like, Come on, like, It's way different. And I'm like,

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Jacob Carlson: And the more and more I looked at it. I'm like, I am in sales, and I realized like, I actually liked getting the $25 for booking the meeting. Right. I liked having that incentive to be able to work harder, um,

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Jacob Carlson: But yeah, that's how I kind of got into it, if that makes sense. And probably wouldn't have if I didn't play NC double A football. So there you go.

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Jordan Benjamin: Wow, that is fascinating. It's, it's always interesting to things you learn when you ask questions, outside of our normal banter.

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Jordan Benjamin: And so, as you've kind of progressed, I know you've, you know, started some different companies and in most of those companies have typically occupied some form of revenue generation role also

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Jordan Benjamin: What have you seen as you've kind of gone between, you know, maybe smaller organizations where it's just you.

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Jordan Benjamin: Selling and you know something at a larger scale like you're seeing at HubSpot today. What do you kind of notice some of those differences, having that pretty unique perspective that not many of us have

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Jacob Carlson: Yeah. And just to kind of give some background so I founded a corporate event planning service. So we worked with, you know, handful of clients on corporate events had a Twitter automation tool.

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Jacob Carlson: That was like a freemium model or our highest certain subscription was like $50 that was like mostly online.

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Jacob Carlson: And now I have a cannabis recruiting firm that has much more like be to be much closer to like the

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Jacob Carlson: The Justin joy model. I think the one thing that I would say is the biggest differences like small business owners. I always say this like small business owners have the best sales people in the world.

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Jacob Carlson: And the reason why they are is because typically, you can go to Walmart, you can go to Target. There's a you can go to Home Depot. Right. There's a cheaper solution out there.

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Jacob Carlson: For somebody to be able to go but there's a reason I go to this particular mechanics and I go to Jiffy Lube

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Jacob Carlson: There's a reason I go to, you know, get my skis tuned at this place versus this place and it's usually around some sort of experience that this person's providing for me.

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Jacob Carlson: And I kind of consider that as a lot of sales, because for most people, it becomes a budget thing. And why do you think people go for a higher cost. And I think that's where the small business model is like so much more difficult and like the bigger bit

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Jordan Benjamin: Interesting. I think there's a there's there's a bunch of points that come up for me as I live up in this mountain communities, you know, and

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Jordan Benjamin: A lot of small businesses are up here and seeing that kind of heart and soul that maybe goes into it a little bit more to to build the reason why he may pay them an extra couple of bucks to to do that service versus, you know, going somewhere else. Makes sense to me.

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Jordan Benjamin: Let's go. I like that a lot. And so, as you've so you've effectively been in some form of a sales role for like 1012 years now, and even even getting back to your recruiting roots.

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Jacob Carlson: It's fun. Always sales always Yeah, pretty much. No matter what

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Jordan Benjamin: Well, that's where I always come back to Daniel Pink's book to sell is human where it's like, no matter what you're doing, you're selling, whether it's asking your kids for

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Jordan Benjamin: You know, help on getting chores done or a significant other or somebody at work to, you know, help you out on something, it's always some form of asking somebody for resources, but

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Jordan Benjamin: A lot more apparent probably in that small business scenario versus, you know, some of the bigger companies, but

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Jordan Benjamin: Over the years, I guess, as you've just had a chance. And I know you talked to so many different people and are so good at building different relationships. Like, what are some of those similarities. You've seen

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Jordan Benjamin: From top performers in sales that have really stood out to you or gone across companies, small or large, what do you see is really kind of having some similarities between top performers

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Jacob Carlson: Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I learned a lot.

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Jacob Carlson: And I've gone through Miller Heiman training. I've done like an abbreviated version of Sandler Training, which are to like the more well known sales training kind of boot camp sort of thing. But I learned a lot coming at HubSpot with with

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Jacob Carlson: Just the way people use your time. Right. I think that that's probably the most important thing that I learned in a lot of traits that people use that are considered salesy

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Jacob Carlson: Right, that are considered in most people that don't do sales actually are like the traits that are all like a bad sales persons tray. Right.

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Jacob Carlson: talking too much wasting each other's time bullshitting right, all of these things that people are like,

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Jacob Carlson: Oh my talkative right like personable all these things that people are like, Oh my god, that's like why you're such a great salesperson. It's like all the top performers. I know, or I've seen

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Jacob Carlson: None of them really kind of like, are they, they compartmentalize, a lot of those traits and a lot of them are kind of working towards like not being

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Jacob Carlson: personable until you need to be personal right because that's exhausting and they're very protective of their time versus like maybe like

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Jacob Carlson: Hey, I could just like work harder and work longer, and work faster than everybody else. We're like, that's never typically how I think like a top performers working

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Jacob Carlson: And not only just as a top performers, like a HubSpot sales rep, but also like as a business owner, right. I think like

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Jacob Carlson: The working inside, outside like on the business versus in the business is the type of mindset I started

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Jacob Carlson: To think about what that the people that are still spending time working on it, versus just in it. Like, they're going to be buried in their friggin business. You know what I mean, like they're literally going to be put in the grave with their fucking

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Jacob Carlson: You know plumbing job and good for them, like I'm not, no one to say anything different with that but they're just never going to get out of that rut sort of thing.

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Jordan Benjamin: Interesting. And so I love that, as this is all just helpful for me as as I get to dig through this is you really see these folks that

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Jordan Benjamin: can compartmentalize the different skills that maybe I'll make up being a good seller BEING PERSONABLE or being able to converse with somebody

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Jordan Benjamin: But really being guarded around how you spend your time. I think is so critical, you know, as we talked to folks every day that most sellers aren't spending.

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Jordan Benjamin: A lot of their time actually selling they're spending it on other tasks. And so if you can really focus that time on, what's going to move the needle.

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Jordan Benjamin: Probably makes sense that that's going to help folks stand out and be top performers. I guess I'm kind of curious on the flip side of that, like, what are some of those traits and it may be very similar to what you just said. But what are some of the traits. You've seen

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Jordan Benjamin: As I know we've both seen many, many, many people not make it in sales over our years. What are some of those traits that you maybe think folks missed or could have done better that would maybe help them perform for the folks that maybe didn't make it.

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Jacob Carlson: Yeah, and I think there's like a key differentiator between like top performer good performer, making it and not making it right sort of thing. And I think like

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Jacob Carlson: One of the things that I, you know, and then I think both of us were always drawn to the HubSpot culture is like none of us were trying to be good reps.

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Jacob Carlson: None of us were trying to be great reps, like we all wanted to be like the Best Rap like the humanly like that was the mindset that was kind of put out there, which I think like a lot of us were drawn to that sort of thing.

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Jacob Carlson: For me like one of the characteristics and I've shared this with our leadership team, you know,

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Jacob Carlson: People that we've worked with, I think the biggest thing that I think it is typically what hold somebody back

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Jacob Carlson: Is focusing on the things that are outside of their control and not letting them not removing them from their kind of day to day process that they need to continue to do because I don't care if you're the top rep, you're the bottom rap.

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Jacob Carlson: We all got to answer emails we all got a prospect. We all have to do these sorts of things. And if you're letting you know you could be 150% of your number you can be 60% of your number.

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Jacob Carlson: You have to do all those things. And if there's something that like is out of your control that's affecting you doing those tasks that you need to do as a kind of a salesperson.

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Jacob Carlson: Or just being able to truck through them. Those are the things internal issues rep to rep conflicts competitors like all of these sorts of things that, like,

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Jacob Carlson: It's like nothing in matters, right, like I used to tell this story to reps. I worked with when we were

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Jacob Carlson: Starting at HubSpot, and I would be like, you think that people you think the reps of the Yellow Pages bitch about their products.

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Jacob Carlson: Like there's a sales rep in the Yellow Pages and taking 150% he's going to friggin P club. He's making 200 300 K a year, and he's selling friggin newspaper Pistone

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Jacob Carlson: ads in the Yellow Pages. Oh, and they have the web products. You kidding me. Like, literally, they're doing that right so like it just helps to have some of that perspective, I think. And that guy is prospecting and do a discovery calls and everything else like that. So I think like

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Jacob Carlson: Having those things get in your way from just doing the things that we need to do every day as salespeople is probably the biggest thing.

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Jordan Benjamin: I, I could not

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Jordan Benjamin: Agree with that one more. Is there more times than I can count where I've got stuck wasting countless hours on things so far out of my control that all of a sudden ended up just hurting me and my own performance.

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Jordan Benjamin: More so than anybody else. So I think

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Jacob Carlson: That's, yeah, not, not to add to that, but like, it's one of the biggest differences I think because we've

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Jacob Carlson: Talked about this a little bit like what's the difference between working with like a 10 person sales team of five verse three, two person one person sales team and like in HubSpot, right.

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Jacob Carlson: Like to me like when I started at HubSpot, I couldn't believe how much time we spend

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Jacob Carlson: Like in a meeting room with like three, the best salespeople to directors, you know me and some other rep. And here we are, like spending an hour arguing about like, who's gonna get

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Jacob Carlson: Credit. I'm like, we should be outselling baby like as a small business, we were

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Jacob Carlson: My teams were always competitive some of my mentors. Some of the people I worked with a just enjoy insanely competitive, we're still competitive today right like chip and putting play golf, whatever. So, so get better about everything, but like

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Jacob Carlson: I loved when they close to do you like. And I think that that's a big difference, I think, too, and I think we get caught up in that in a bigger organization like it's it's a major thing that happens.

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Jordan Benjamin: It's so true.

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Jordan Benjamin: You know, the more systematic you try to make the organization, the more that rules get in place and all sorts of other things. I think it's something that's been interesting to me is

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Jordan Benjamin: You know, we've really got a chance to watch our organizations scale and to pivot, a little bit.

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Jordan Benjamin: One of the things that I feel like, you know, you mentioned sales training Sandler all these other systems that most folks in sales are probably familiar with, or have heard of at least one of them.

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Jordan Benjamin: What I've been super curious about for the last, I don't know 567 years even is a little bit more on the mental game.

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Jordan Benjamin: You know, and being a former athlete being in somebody that seemed like small business and had to really get it out.

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Jordan Benjamin: I'm curious, like, What do you do on the mental side of things to really help yourself be successful. Do you have any routines that you typically stick to

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Jordan Benjamin: Or anything of the sort. On the mental side of it, that you think has really helped you continually hit presidents club and things like that.

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Jacob Carlson: There's probably two things. Um, one of them is kind of giving yourself a timeline to be upset right I think

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Jacob Carlson: One of

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Jacob Carlson: One of my first mentors actually are MJ would tell me, and she actually like would like that I would get a little mad. Sometimes that I would like be mad that I lost the deal. She's like, that's okay. Jacob Right.

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Jacob Carlson: But she would be like, hey, I would come in like the next day or the day after right

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Jacob Carlson: And I'd still be like moping around and she'd be like, Jacob. We can be carrying a stupid pro deal that you know you got another 10 other pro deals. You've been her clothes like so giving yourself like a timeline, right, we're like,

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Jacob Carlson: It and then what I realized is like I would go with, like, okay, and afternoon where she would like literally be like go play golf.

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Jacob Carlson: Like go do something else like you are not be like you are. You have the worst attitude of anybody I've ever seen in my life, like, get out of here right sort of thing, right, and I

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Jacob Carlson: And I go do whatever. But what I realized was like giving myself that time that time that window for myself. It started to get shorter.

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Jacob Carlson: And then I needed a two hours and then I needed, like a good lunch with my buddies or then I needed like 15 minutes right we're like, slowly but surely I started like training myself to be like wow, like

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Jacob Carlson: It was pretty pouty that I was like complaining about that. So that's probably the first thing to do is like, give yourself a timeline and be generous with yourself and say tomorrow by 12. I'm not going to be pissed about this anymore.

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Jacob Carlson: Um, that's probably the first thing I think the second thing, too, is I am perpetually

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Jacob Carlson: I don't want to say like pessimistic.

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Jacob Carlson: But I'm kind of like playing devil's advocate with my opportunities at all periods of time. Right. I used to have the nickname of like the sad clown.

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Jacob Carlson: Right because they'd be like, Jacob. You don't think any of your friggin deals are going to come in and I'm like, I don't know, like

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Jacob Carlson: Right, because when you do it for so long. And the reason that I like to do that with myself as I'm like over emotional right I'm too emotional

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Jacob Carlson: Right, so like I have to like mentally prepare myself for not to happen, go through that thought process of, like, yeah. They told me they had to talk to legal like

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Jacob Carlson: Totally doesn't sound like it's going to get signed in seven days, realistically, like I believe that this won't get signed because they have to go through legal

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Jacob Carlson: It just helps me deal with it and cope with like the ups and downs of like

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Jacob Carlson: What is going on because it's not that big a deal. It wasn't the end of the world HubSpot, like I couldn't tell you how many times, like they would be like, yeah, like we still need you to sell HubSpot like

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Jacob Carlson: Even though you lost this deal like we still you got this other one Cohen sort of thing. So I think that's, that's part of it too, and it goes back to that whole idea of like

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Jacob Carlson: Just accepting if you're in sales, you're going to have to do three or four different things every day that like everyone from like the first BTR to like the VP of Sales, we often do it.

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Jordan Benjamin: I think those are both really really good points, you know, thinking about how do you give yourself a little bit of time to be upset.

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Jordan Benjamin: And I know we were talking earlier about reps that have been a work deals for years that all the sudden may go a different direction and

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Jordan Benjamin: You know, for a lot of the sales that we've been doing at least it's a little bit more transactional a little bit shorter sales cycles. So maybe you're not

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Jordan Benjamin: As invested in that deal, but I think there's still such a great opportunity to say, all right, I'm going to give myself an hour or 15 minutes to be upset.

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Jordan Benjamin: And once that's done, you know, maybe I'm even going to set a timer. Once that's done, I gotta move on to the next thing. And actually move forward. I think that's a really, really great point, as you think about just having something really simple and easy.

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Jordan Benjamin: To

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Jacob Carlson: Listen to your favorite song, like, you know, or like like actually I like I got to the point without where I was like, literally, like raging it out sort of thing.

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Jacob Carlson: Where I would like workout or like, you know what I mean, I'd like listen to something and like like fire.

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Jacob Carlson: But then after that, you then you like. Think back to yourself and you're like,

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Jacob Carlson: The hell you grunting about like the stupid. You know what I mean. You can be like allows yourself to cease perspective is like a human, and then like maybe I shouldn't freak out over these like silly things. So it's a way to kind of train yourself. I think

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Jordan Benjamin: Yeah, I think that is huge and something that I will take for myself. Honestly, that's something that I still struggle with every day and I'm always looking for new ways to perform better to

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Jordan Benjamin: Suck a little bit less when the Times aren't going well. So if you can shorten that time as you talk about, again, the top performers. You've seen

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Jordan Benjamin: managing their time really effectively if I can manage down a little bit of time when I'm struggling or upset or frustrated shorten that window so more time is spent actually selling probably should help you be more successful.

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Jordan Benjamin: And less angry. Yeah.

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Jordan Benjamin: That's fascinating. Um, couple other questions before we wrap up in terms of managers that I've worked with you or when you've managed people

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Jordan Benjamin: What do you see from that perspective in terms of that kind of mental game that that's really helped.

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Jordan Benjamin: Either have you connect with somebody or want to go to bat for that manager or really just kind of drive you further, what, what have you seen from the management and leadership perspective in sales.

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Jacob Carlson: Yeah, I think it's two different sides of it. I think for myself, managing other people I'm

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Jacob Carlson: I'm not the greatest setup, to be quite honest with you, like managing other people on the sales side of things. I kind of always go by the mantra of like

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Jacob Carlson: Hey, if you could figure it out like the way you figure it out. I always like describe it to people like it's like the lone wolf trying to like manage people where I'm just like, and like figuring out sort of thing. Um,

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Jacob Carlson: I try to be an ad you try to be some sort of ally to somebody through that and have them be able to, I think the biggest thing and I try to convey when I have

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Jacob Carlson: Reps that are managing and I'm working with a couple people on the cannabis recruiting thing is like hey, like you have to believe in your in the process that you're doing.

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Jacob Carlson: Right, like, especially when you have remote people that like aren't in your bullpen together and we're not like

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Jacob Carlson: High Five ng and hearing good calls and hearing bad calls and those sorts of things. It becomes even more of a

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Jacob Carlson: Challenge. But I think like what you try to get out of people is like trying to have them believe in the process themselves and allowing them to be able to say, you know what Jacob like making those 50 cold calls a day. It doesn't make sense. It's not working.

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Jacob Carlson: To like hey these 50 sequences aren't working, and those sorts of things. So to be able to allow people to like

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Jacob Carlson: Build a process that they believe into. So that's a for me like managing other people i'm i think i'm not created. I think I need to get a lot better at it and being more empathetic towards people

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Jacob Carlson: I come from, like the old school like football coach mentality where it's like, shut up, put some dirt on and get back out there.

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Jacob Carlson: Um, which doesn't know his word for everybody. Um, I think, managing me. I think that goes back into like that whole idea for me, like, especially

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Jacob Carlson: As a season dropped it comes down to trust, right, like I need

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Jacob Carlson: Like we had our manager that used to say to us, like, hey, my job. Like, does that Sean Is that what I always say to us like

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Jacob Carlson: Hey, my job is to like get shit out of your way. So you can sell more right and we all love that. I remember when he said that to me. I was like oh my god I freakin love this guy right so i think like on

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Jacob Carlson: The be managed side of things. I think it's like all really based around trust and understanding that I'm not coming to you.

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Jacob Carlson: As my person that I roll up to unless I really, really, really need your help, right, because we all work in this like fast paced

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Jacob Carlson: And I think for for me ask, just to be self reflective like I'm not great at that. I'm always like, I don't want to bother them. I don't want to bother them on and I'm sure they're busy. They're busy sort of thing. I think that that

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Jacob Carlson: Doesn't always I don't get the we don't get the best response from that as far as leadership goes, but I think those are some of the things I think that we try to balance and I see you got a smirk on your face. So you're thinking of

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Jacob Carlson: Like you know what that does come up to play right where you're thinking of like being managed and managing up and and those sorts of things on the being managed. Yeah.

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Jordan Benjamin: No, I, I'm smiling because I think those are really fantastic points and

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Jordan Benjamin: Coming trust, I think is the biggest thing for a leader.

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Jordan Benjamin: To have with our team, you know, a lot of articles talk about Google saying oh psychological safety. And I think that's so similar in that realm of talking about, do you feel that you can trust the person that you're working with.

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Jordan Benjamin: Do you feel that you're safe working with them and able to come to them when you have a challenge or an issue. And do you feel confident that you're going to be supported.

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Jordan Benjamin: I think that's

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Jacob Carlson: Because selling is hard, right, like so. I think the other thing, too, is like I think with on the management side is like being so empathetic to people on that side. And I'm going to tell you a quick story of that like

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Jacob Carlson: trust factor. Right. So I have one of my business partners, one of my employees for the canvas recruiting thing right he was. I thought I caught him making what I call this like fake dials right in the CRM.

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Jacob Carlson: Right, so I'm like, what are these 830 I dials. Right. And like most of the time I didn't have time to like go back and look at it. Right, so like one morning I was having like a bad morning and I like lava over this fucking slack. That's like

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Jacob Carlson: You know, I know you're dealing fake dials and get our act and like, then I had two meetings. I didn't even think about it. Right. And this poor kid is like

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Jacob Carlson: You know he's sending me screenshots of his Nast camera for him being like Jacob, I was sitting at my desk, this whole time.

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Jacob Carlson: Right, like this is how like hardcore. It's getting. He's like, dude, like what do you want me to do and singing my desk, all the time.

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Jacob Carlson: Right. And I like honestly like it was just a slack that I logged over I was doing a million other things. It was probably super mean

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Jacob Carlson: And like he was really friggin hurt. He was like dude like really like what's going on. And I remember I asked.

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Jacob Carlson: I went to lunch. I forget who I went to lunch with with somebody, I think it was like 17 or somebody some other person who would manage other people before and I was telling the story. I was like, yeah, like

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Jacob Carlson: You know, like he's doing these fake dials and like, I don't know if like what we should do. He's like, dude, like

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Jacob Carlson: The fact that you don't trust him enough that like you're like carrying that much like your whole systems are screwed up that like he's having to make these fake dials like he's taking

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Jacob Carlson: Pictures like crazy, right. So, so it's like it's part of that too is like thinking about like those systems are screwed up right like the systems are messed up, but

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Jordan Benjamin: Yeah, no, I think that's such a funny.

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Jacob Carlson: I lost a ton of trust with this guy like

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Jacob Carlson: Almost like he just doesn't want to eat like didn't ever want to do it again because he was like, I'm logging calls in the CRM. It's taking more time to do it. And it's just friggin hard to so

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Jordan Benjamin: Dude, I think that is a really fantastic point and great story to evidence, how quickly that trust can disappear.

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Jordan Benjamin: And how it may have just been, you know, a sentence from us and like, Yeah, I've done that too. You know, like not cutting it here when the show.

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Jordan Benjamin: But really, then thinking about how quickly now that could totally degrade

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Jordan Benjamin: Their overall performance their motivation their drive their connectedness to the organization as you talk again about small businesses that

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Jordan Benjamin: That's really where those folks are connected to their company where they see such a big impact when they close a deal. And if they don't feel that trust throughout the organization that connectedness to it.

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Jordan Benjamin: Probably not going to be as motivated to sell as much, or maybe might go more on the lone wolf solve for number one perspective, which isn't always best for the company.

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Jacob Carlson: Yeah, it's funny. Like I always think, like, you know, you look at small businesses like businesses under 25 people right and rarely do you see anybody

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Jacob Carlson: With a business under 25 with the title of sales.

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Jacob Carlson: Like rarely you do right, it's like, maybe, you know, maybe some SAS, you know, some software stuff, potentially, but like you know why you never see like a 10 person, company with anybody with a sales title.

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Jacob Carlson: Is because the friggin owner is doing it like the owner is the salesperson sort of thing. And the problem is if you're a salesperson and small business, and this has happened to me. Right.

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Jacob Carlson: There like I'm just gonna go start my own business. So like it's just this perpetual cycle. I think it always goes back to the to the small business owner, being the Best Salesperson in the world. So

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Jordan Benjamin: I love that man this is this is really great. I really, really liked a lot of what you have to share here as we wrap up any parting thoughts or words of wisdom tips, tricks, strategies, ideas, you would share with sellers sales leaders on how to perform at their best.

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Jacob Carlson: I think it's small goals. I think it's like chipping away at things right like

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Jacob Carlson: I told I know I started the whole thing with like the story about hitting you know number one on the waterfall and so on and so forth, like

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Jacob Carlson: What freaked me out the most about that was that like I didn't do anything special that month. Right. I didn't close like this monster deal that I've been working on for a year.

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Jacob Carlson: I just literally had things like fall into place at the right time and that like freaked me out because I didn't really have a lot of control of it. Right. So the only things that I like.

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Jacob Carlson: As a controlling person as I am, and I think a lot of the lot of sales people are you can control like really small goals for yourself.

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Jacob Carlson: And like you can really like get those things done. And that's how you start building momentum.

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Jacob Carlson: With other things. So for today, I'm going to make 10 cold calls today or hey, I'm going to like recreate a sequence or you know redesign my discovery call checklist, something like that. Just keep continuing to have small goals. I think for yourself is probably the best advice I have

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Jordan Benjamin: I think that is a fantastic way to look at it as we are currently going through kind of crazy times now. I think a lot of folks are saying, How can I just go one step at a time, one day at a time. And I think that's so true through sales as well.

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Jordan Benjamin: So the last question, Jacob is is how can our listeners find you follow you online in any way that they may want to reach out to you, or you know, follow your businesses anywhere that they should go to find you.

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Jacob Carlson: Or reach out obviously

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Jacob Carlson: Probably going to plug me the most out right now is for tuna business solutions which is cannabis recruiting and executive search and we help cannabis businesses find

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Jacob Carlson: Experienced candidates that have worked in the space, you can find us at work for tuna.com I know everyone loves that URL also find me at LinkedIn and arm obviously on LinkedIn. You can probably find me connected to Jordan and my Twitter is Jacob at 617

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Jacob Carlson: As well too. So

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Jordan Benjamin: Awesome. Well, Jacob. Thank you so much for spending time with us, sharing your wisdom tips, tricks, I think there's a lot of great things that our listeners can learn and until the next episode next episode. Happy selling

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Jacob Carlson: Later, guys.